Blood around urthra or vagina area.

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Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:43 am

I've been cleaning out my rats, and whilst putting them back in their cage my sister noticed that Sybil has fresh blood around her urethra vagina area. So I'm kind of in a panic it being this time at night etc.

What could it be and what should I do? Should I keep her in the main cage or separate her? I can take her to the local (not great) vet in the morning.. I wouldn't be able to take her to the better vets until tomorrow night as my dad isn't gonna take me until after work.

She seems okay in herself, bright as usual.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by Zoundz on Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:44 am

Sounds like an infection, probably a pyometra. I would go to the vet and get antibiotics. My memory is fuzzy, but I think synulox is good for this?

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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:07 am

How important is it that I get her there asap? Just the only vets I can get her to before 6pm tomorrow are one that I'm not very confident in and one I've never used before. I was thinking of calling the one I've never used before to ask about their experience as the other is a bit of a lottery when it comes to whether you get a decent rat vet.

Or I can wait until 6pm after my dad finishes work and take her to a vet I have a bit more confidence in.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by Zoundz on Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:44 am

I'd wait until after 6 - it's not an emergency I'd say, it's up to you of course, but I'd be more inclined to wait for a vet I have confidence in personally. By ASAP I really just meant as soon as it's sensible to do so Smile

xx

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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:49 am

I've never dealt with these kinds of things before, so I dunno how fast the decline can be etc. At the moment at least she seems like her usual self, she even went for a run in the wheel, plus she's still eating. Though from some stuff I've read I'm wondering if it's maybe a UTI.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by Zoundz on Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:54 pm

Well - is the blood thick and fresh and red looking? or is it quite watery?

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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:33 pm

It was bright red and I guess a little watery looking, but thick enough I think. Very fresh looking. I couldn't get a second look because like 5/10 minutes later she'd cleaned herself.. I went in this morning and there's no blood again, still I assume she's cleaned herself. So it's hard to be a 100% sure, but the blood was definitely around the little nub she pees from.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:02 pm

Guh, now I'm second guessing myself. I'm not so sure it is coming from her urethra now. I put her in her carrier on some white tissue and there was a little spit of diluted blood but she peed and it looked normal. My mum had already made an appointment with the close by vet because he said it sounded like something he'd deal with. He said they'd handle mostly routine things like things needing antibiotics and anything more serious they refer them to the vet I usually use.

They can't give us an appointment until after 5pm anyway, so now I'm thinking if it is coming from her vagina that I might have been better just going to the further away vet if I'm gonna end up there anyway. But my mums annoyed because she doesn't think it's right to make an appointment then cancel it. :/
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:46 am

Update:

He said there was quite a bit of blood around her vulva and he's put her and my other wheezy ones on a course of Baytril as he wants to rule out infection plus she's a bit wheezy too. They're on 0.25mls once a day. I've got to monitor for a week and if it eases he said he'd extend the course of Baytril but if it gets worse or doesn't ease any he's going to scan her for womb problems.

He then said if there was anything then we would talk about spaying. He thought with her only being 7 months that she was maybe a bit young for something like pyo, but I think spaying is probably the inevitable outcome as the way the blood is it doesn't seem like it's in her urine. It's kind of like spotting like when a human is on their period. He said he can do rat spaying and it costs between £85 to £100.. to which my dad said when the vet left the room "You'd be better just getting a new one." I hope he was joking. Lol.

So yeah.. any idea long should a Baytril course be? The amount I have doesn't seem that much for 3 rats. I'm not sure if he wants to monitor the wheezy ones for a week too.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:35 am

I've been told I may just be better going ahead and having her spayed while she seems in such good health (despite the blood). I'm starting to lean towards calling the vet and telling him I just want spay her anyway. Since the likelihood is even if the bleeding stops it could just come back again, possibly worse. Still, I'm worried she won't make it through the operation. Sad
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by Zoundz on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:33 pm

Won't lie to you, there is a high risk of death with spays, regardless of what people say to the contrary. If the vet hasn't done many many many of them before, there's a good chance that it could go wrong, and she may die under anaesthetic, or not too long after the surgery.

Having said that, it may be the best course of action if she's got a bad pyo, as that will eventually probably kill her anyway Sad

Fingers crossed for her.

xx

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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by redrach on Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:50 pm

What Zoundz said.
If you're going for a spay go to Gareth at Jubilee. I've discussed them with him before and he has a good bit of experience with spays (more so than he does with neuters). I'm sure he'd be confident to do it. I had a neuter done by him 2 weeks ago and everything was done perfectly. He will however, warn you as everyone else is, that surgery is a risk. I also doubt he'd be overly keen to operate if she is having respiratory problems (he said he wouldn't have been keen to do Malcolm's castration had he had any health problems and specifically mentioned respiratory).

If it were me personally, I'd ring Gareth (ask to speak to him directly, he may ring you back if he's busy) and talk it through with him. I'd probably go for a spay, as Zoundz said if it's pyo it's going to kill her anyway, and for me I'd rather risk death due to surgery.

I know you don't like asking for help or anything, but the offer's there if you want any help with transport or anything else (I only drive a small Micra, but I'll do what I can).
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:20 pm

Although she's a bit respy, despite that she's not really got any other symptoms of being unwell (apart from the blood) she's still eating, drinking, being pingy etc. So I figure now may be the best time rather than wait and for her to potentially go down hill and give her even less chance of getting through the surgery.

I think I'll try and see if I can talk to him on the phone, since he's seen her before and knows of her resp problems etc.

And thank you for the offer. Dreading telling my dad, he liked the vet we seen yesterday but I'd rather go with one that someone else can vouch for and I felt like Gareth was a bit more... I dunno, he kinda listens more or something.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by redrach on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:27 am

Yeah, Gareth's very good. He's a really nice guy. I think the best thing about him, is that he really cares about them too. He was really sad when we had Albie PTS and when I told him we lost Chandler too. When I had Malcolm neutered he said that there are risks but that he'd do everything he could for Malcolm. That made me feel a lot better about the surgery because it wasn't just any animal to him, he cared about Malcolm and me.

I hope your dad stops giving you a bit of a hard time about it, they're your pets and it's not fair that they should have less care or opportunity to see a good vet because he won't support your views. I don't know what it's like, but I kinda understand because I know if I had to rely on my family it'd be hard because they're pretty much all disgusted at the thought of my beautiful pets.

Anyway, I hope she's okay and I hope you get something sorted soon.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:33 am

How do operations like this work for rats? Do they need to go in for a consultation first, and then is it scheduled for another day?
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by redrach on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:45 am

I'm not sure how it's supposed to work, but basically I rang when I was thinking about getting Malcolm done and asked all I wanted to know. I then rang the next week when I'd decided and just booked him in for the next day (I think it was okay 'cause Gareth already knew it might be happening and knew he had no health problems, so that would prob be the same if you rang to discuss it first). I'm sure if you said it would be a problem getting over for a consultation and then twice for the op he would understand. I just dropped Malcolm off in the morning, about 9am and Gareth checked him over before the surgery and then he was home by 3.30.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:12 am

I just rang and spoke to Michael because Gareth was on the phone, but they said Michael was the one who would would usually deal with exotics anyway. He said I can bring her over tonight and they'd take a look, and if they were gonna spay then I could bring her back tomorrow and they'd do it or leave her over night.. or I can just bring her in the morning and they'd take a look then and if we're gonna go ahead and spay then I'd leave her there.

He basically said what most have said, it could be something very bad or just a minor infection but its hard to know and they can go down hill very fast. I told him about seeing the other vet and that the vet had said there was a lot of blood around her vulva. And I don't think its in her urine.

I've not seen any blood today, but last night there was a drip of blood on the mini level I feed them on so I'm gonna assume she's maybe just a good cleaner.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by redrach on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:26 am

I guess that sounds good. It's obviously totally up to you who you see. I saw Michael once before when I first started going there and didn't like him, I was actually trying to find another vet from Jubilee until I accidentally came across Gareth. I know he is the exotics guy there, and he does stuff for the Belfast zoo too, but I never found him reliable (rang a few times to see him ASAP and he was out at the zoo or couldn't get speaking to him, never had that problem getting in touch with Gareth). I also found when I actually talked to them that Gareth had just about the same rat experience as Michael even though Michael is exotics and Gareth is 'companion animals'. I guess it's partly also because I don't see my rats as 'exotic' animals and I was charged way more the time I saw Michael, the only reason I can think is because they can charge more if the animal is deemed 'unusual' or 'difficult' for a regular vet to see.

Again though, it's whoever you feel comfortable with.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:37 am

Yeah, I can understand that. I had asked to speak to Gareth and they had put me on hold for a while because Gareth was busy in another phone call, so I felt kinda I dunno bad for disturbing him or something and I'm super nervous on the phone (Literally sat for like 10 mins trying to get the courage to ring. Rung, and then hung up while the recorded message was playing.. xD) so yeah, I didn't wanna seem difficult or something.

I don't really mind who does it so long as they know what they are doing and take care of her. I did really like Gareth though when I went to him before. I can definitely see why you recommend him, though Michael did some nice on the phone. He didn't give me the impression he couldn't be bothered talking to me like you get sometimes (especially from receptionists which is weird because taking phone calls if their job! Laugh) which makes me even more nervous.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:40 am

Oh, question. When you leave them in.. do they keep your carrier? Lol.
Just wondering if I should take someone else with her on the journey to keep her calm.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by redrach on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:47 am

Yeah, I know how you feel. I have anxiety issues and talking on the phone is really not my forte. If he seems nice and you're happy enough then I guess just go for it. GOOD LUCK.

I took Malcolm in a cat carrier so he'd have plenty of room but feel secure (they put that in the holding cage thingy). So yeah, it's prob best to take a carrier for them to keep her in. I'd prob just take her on her own, save another one from having 2 possibly stressful journey's for no reason and then the need to bring another carrier and switch her over. I'm sure she'll be fine on her own, mine normally all go on their own. I was kinda annoyed they just talk with you in the reception and then take them away, I wanted to go back and see him in the holding bit 'cause I've been back there before a few times anyway.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:27 am

Well, Sybil is back home and all. Turned out not to be Michael who did it, it was a woman but she seemed nice and knowledgeable. She thought there was a lot of blood and basically said what people had said here about the fact we wouldn't really be sure where it's coming from unless they did the spay, and that it was best to do it now because she could go down hill very fast and it would give her less chance getting through it.

Anyway, after it was done she said there was no evidence of any tumours in her womb and her bladder also looked normal. She did say though it was possible there was maybe a low grade tumour starting and that's where the blood was coming from. I assume there was no puss etc to indicate infection.

Hopefully we were right to think it was her womb, I mean her urine was completely clear of blood so you would think if it had urinary/kidney/bladder that her urine would have been pinky or something.

They said they gave her painkillers during the op and that they should last 48 hours, but I got infant calpol for her anyway. When should I give that to her?
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by redrach on Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:51 am

Glad she got through it okay!
If they last 48 hours I'd not give any calpol for 48 hours then.
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Re: Blood around urthra or vagina area.

Post by SaraBloo on Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:25 am

I've been told the calpol and whatever they gave her wouldn't be unsafe to mix anyway. So I might just keep an eye on her and if she seems in pain give her some sooner instead.
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