Cruelty in Research

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Cruelty in Research

Post by DJF on Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:48 am

I am not against the use of animals in research. I think it is justified when *absolutely* necessary and the research in question goes beyond the aim of satisfying the curiosity of academia. I never anticipated that research requiring animal models would be 'nice' but I always naively expected that it would be done in a spirt of compassion and respect. BUAV's recent investigation at Imperial proves otherwise. I have given the link to their press release below. This contains a link to video footage that I think all should watch. However, be warned that the cruelty and incompetence on display is gruesome and tormenting.

In many respects, the ethics of the institution become the ethics of the researcher and I think Imperial to blame above any of the researchers. However, there are aspects of the footage where researchers are giggling at there own follies. To carry out this work in such a heinous manner and accompanied with laughter and nonchalance can only signify severe pathology on the part of the researcher or simple blind ambition. Knowing how the academy works, I assume mostly the latter. Either way, it is disgusting.

http://www.buav.org/article/1234/imperial-college-london

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Re: Cruelty in Research

Post by Zoundz on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:25 am

I'm not a fan of BUAV, or PeTA or other similar sorts of... how to put it... propaganda? organisations. I suspect this is the video that I've heard about through Facebook (but not seen). Just watched a bit of it now, no time for the rest at the moment, but nothing struck me as particularly untoward. It's easy to imply things in this sort of video. For instance, the first shots, of the struggling rat - seemingly being impaled with a needle/awl - to me looked far more like a rat being administered some form of liquid drug by syringe. It's not pleasant, but it's not torture either Smile we have to do very similar with some of ours from time to time. All of the other stuff left me feeling a bit... hmm... becasue the rats were 99.5 of the time dead. The method for disengaging the head for example, nothing wrong with that... and even if they were alive at the time, as awful as it looks to us, it's actually probably quicker and more pain free than the methods of put to sleep we use for our pets.

So I'm on the fence - I strongly support research for medical purposes, because aside from anything else, it also benefits animals Smile

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Re: Cruelty in Research

Post by Zoundz on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:27 am

Also, moved it to debate - because I expect it may get heated Smile a little nudge to everyone to debate it calmly, rationally, and not to go for the throat please Smile Thanks for starting this thread Darren - very interesting Smile

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Re: Cruelty in Research

Post by Zoundz on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:06 am

OK... watching a bit more of it now - the mouse treadmill thing... as far as I'm aware that's actually not legal anymore - so I suspect that's a piece of pretty old footage. Sorry for being a bit of a sceptic but I really don't trust anything from these organisations.

I would say the video is beautifully edited to show what BUAV want it to show - and I would say there are a handful of awful breaches which they are cherrypicking. Yes of course there will be cases of cruelty and cases of unlawlful behaviour - but there are so many shades of grey. I reserve judgment.

ETA - sorry - but I got quite cross about the beheading thing... it's very humane... possibly one of *the* most humane methods. No it's not pretty - but I have to say - if I had the balls to do that with my pets, and if it didn't upset me so much - that's what I'd have done - it's *much* quicker and cleaner and nicer than the normal 'humane' methods of put to sleep.

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Re: Cruelty in Research

Post by DJF on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:27 am

Scepticism is good! I too am not a fan of these 'propaganda' organisations but that I believe is a description which encompasses all lobby groups to some extent.

I am not moved by the blood or the reality of the experiments but mostly by the incompetencies communicated by the staff. The reality is you have a bunch of PhD students performing surgical procedures incorrectly and clearly inhumanely. We can argue that it is beautifully edited but there are certain communications that would make one worry. I don't mind that those participating in projects are not clear on the particulars of their license but flat out admissions of an absence of training and cluelessness are shocking. In terms of research, incorrectly writing a a piece of code or making wrong calculations are vastly different from incorrectly anaesthetising a specimen for vivisection.

The video communicates a callousness that I hope is the invention of BUVA but it is difficult to discern.

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Re: Cruelty in Research

Post by DJF on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:32 am

Not as a total non- sequitur, if you watch the footage below from PETA's investigation of Rainbow Exotics breeding mill, it is clear that these reports have a style.

https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=1133


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Re: Cruelty in Research

Post by Zoundz on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:54 pm

I do wish they would devote time to actually fighting the really bad stuff in this world... oddly enough, I suspect that the video of the breeding mill is highly accurate. This is why I keep trying to urge people NOT to buy from petshops... there is *never* a good reason! NEVER. Actually - watching the video, much of this is not confined to mills, there are petshops around here that are as bad.

I don't know - I don't trust the first video at all - I think there are very rare cases of this sort of thing happening - but my gut tells me it's actually possibly not even real, that it's fake footage, or at least a fake audio track.

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